Lawyers, Guns and Money, by Martha Thomases – Brilliant Disguise
November 21, 2009 Martha Thomases 3 Comments
I read the news today. Oy vey.
The latest political kerfuffle arises from Attorney General Eric Holder’s desire to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four of his co-conspirators in Federal Court in Manhattan. Mohammed and his pals are accused of planning and executing the September 11 attacks in 2001.
Manhattan’s Federal Courthouse is just a few blocks away from the hole where the World Trade Center used to be.
The arguments, both for and against holding the trial here, are kind of onion-esque. There are layers upon layers of reasons, emotions and political manipulations.
As nearly as I can tell, the arguments against holding the trial in a civilian court (as opposed to a military court) are two-fold: first, that these men don’t deserve a trial that grants them the same legal rights as other defendants; second, that it’s too dangerous to New York to have the trial here.
Let’s look at these arguments in reverse order.
New York City is a dangerous place. In the last few years, it’s been safer, but it’s not safe. There are kids getting shot on the way to school, and grandmothers shot running errands for their neighbors.
New York City is already a primary target to the terrorists. We’ve been hit twice. We’ve been threatened repeatedly. This has not escaped my notice. I’m reminded by the soldiers, heavily armed and in uniform, who patrol my transit system. I can’t go to High Holy Day services at my synagogue without walking past armed guards and concrete barricades, and I must also allow my purse to be searched to make sure I’m not bringing in weapons. And, of course, there is the nasty hole in the skyline I see from my windows.
So threats like this miss the point. We’re already living with fear of the terrible. Another trial of al Queda defendants (and 23 of them have had their day in court) won’t make things any worse.
(I don’t think New York is the only place attractive to terrorists, as this story demonstrates. For that matter, so does this story.)
Do terrorists deserve a civilian trial? I think so. I think giving them a military trials demeans their victims by granting the defendants a status (military) that they don’t deserve.
The attacks of September 11 were criminal acts. The people who perpetrated these attacks are gangsters and thugs (and, no, I’m not hip-hop enough to mean that as a compliment). They should be tried as criminals and sentenced like criminals.
Cowards like this should stop demeaning the idea of the military, the nation-state, and war. I’m not crazy about any of those three things, but I recognize that they imply a code of conduct and honor that is absent from fundamentalist terrorists.
We are a nation of laws. We believe in justice, reason and law. Those of us who believe in non-violent civil disobedience do so because we think it’s the best way to change bad laws. That’s why we’re better than al-Queda.
Trying them in civilian court shows the rest of the world what we mean by Truth, Justice and The American Way. It should be about our best, not about our worst.
Media Goddess Martha Thomases hopes you all have a lot to be thankful for this week, and always.
John Tebbel
November 21, 2009 - 6:56 am
Nice to return to the rule of law after eight years of Drugstore Cowboy George, the worst president ever, and his toddler’s idea of right and wrong.
Frank Miller
November 21, 2009 - 7:41 am
I think the Republicans’ basic objection is that Obama thought of it. If he balanced the budget, ended the recession and found enough to give us all $10,000 rebate checks, they’d still find something wrong with it.
MOTU
November 21, 2009 - 8:42 am
Frank,
I love you man!
pennie
November 21, 2009 - 2:21 pm
Martha, how can I forget that day we spent terrorized together 3,000 miles away? You desperately searching for your family and mine…It will never leave. So I just can’t wrap my head around this trial–in that place–with these men.
I believe I’m pretty good at imagining possibilities but this? It both defiles and defies my senses. These men need to be placed in a public trial and so much more. But is holding it in NYC going to promote any healing? Not sure here. The opportunity for martyrdom looms large. And that will open so many wounds.
That day will never rest in peace. I fear more troubles. And as you know, I don’t spend much time dwelling on fear.
Martha Thomases
November 21, 2009 - 3:15 pm
@Pennie: There may be legitimate legal reasons for a change of venue. I’m not particularly savvy about that part of the law.
But if we let those fundamentalist creeps scare us, they’ve won. I’d much rather parade them through the judicial system, so everyone can see what sniveling cowards they are, how intellectually and spiritually bankrupt their philosophy.
We can’t let them push us around. It would be a dishonor to those we’ve lost, and to the fear and sadness we endured that day.
Alan Coil
November 21, 2009 - 4:28 pm
To those that need it, this will provide some closure.
My thought is that New York will be a target again at some time in the future no matter if these guys are tried or not, no matter if they are tried in New York or not, and no matter if they are executed or not.
Have the trials in New York to help those that can get help from the trials. The members of the GOP have proven that they are going to complain no matter what the administration does or doesn’t do.
In that single minded state, are they any different than those who would attack us physically?
C. Swayze
November 21, 2009 - 4:39 pm
Excellent reasoning, as usual, Martha. I am becoming inclined to agree with Frank, too. I once saw a bumper sticker that says it in a nutshell:
The fundamental problem is Fundamentalism.
R. Maheras
November 22, 2009 - 12:16 pm
Personally, I can’t help thinking the trials in New York City will be a circus of epic proportions as these terrorists use the courts as a world-wide bully pulpit; they will drag on forever and be a huge black eye on the United States; and, finally, they will give these terrorists to get off scott free.
I’m not even a lawyer, yet I’ve already witnessed two enormous legal mistakes by this administration — aside from the initial gaffe of moving these five trials to a civilian court in the first place. Both are tied in to the American legal system’s fundamental right to a fair trial.
The first thing the defense will argue? How can these men get a fair trial if the jury of their “peers” comes from NYC? What sane and rational juror from the jury pool can possibly say they know little or nothing about 9-11? Chances are, everyone in the city was either personally touched by the tragedy; or they know someone who lost — and talked about — someone who was killed in the tragedy; or they read about it in the paper; or they saw it on TV. These people will be immediately disqualified by the defense. So you tell me how the hell the prosecution is going to find 60 people for five trials, plus a pool of alternate jurors, in NYC? It might take them YEARS to find such a pool, and the intelligence level of the finalists will have to be such that it might be impossible to get a conviction.
The second mistake was President Obama’s public guarantee of a conviction. Has he lost his mind? He is a lawyer, for crying out loud! Such a declaration makes the perception of a fair trial impossible. And it also scares the shit out of me. What happened the last time a president was told by his advisors that something was a slam dunk???
If these trials turn out like I fear they will, and especially if they drag on until 2012, I don’t see how Obama will ever get himself re-elected. It will be like Carter’s embarrassing albatross around the neck all over again: The Iranian Hostage Crisis.
The first salvo that proves I may be right? The prisoners all have changed their pleas to “not guilty,” so they have the opportunity to vent their hateful venom against the United States.
Oh, man, do I really have a bad feeling about these trials!
R. Maheras
November 22, 2009 - 12:31 pm
In my first paragraph above, I meant to write, “and, finally, they will give these terrorists a chance to get off scott free.”
By the way. Notice that I made no mention at all about the security issues that will revolve around these trials? That is a whole other ball game. Basically, if nothing major happens in NYC during these trials, I will be very happy, but I’ll also be very, very shocked. I’m afraid NYC will become a terrorist magnet because it will be just crawling with the terrorist’s best friend: the media. If that happens, no matter how thorough the security, some guys will still get through and make a splash. It happens in heavily armed camps like the Iraq and the Green Zone — why not in a place with a huge abundance of soft targets like NYC?
Mike Gold
November 22, 2009 - 1:42 pm
What it boils down to is this: either we are a nation of laws, or we aren’t.
If these people “deserve” a military trial, then they must be perceived as troops entitled to the rules of the Geneva Conventions. That ship sailed along time ago. If we look at it that way, we’d have to let them loose right now.
If we are afraid that they will exercise their right to freedom of speech (innocent unless and until proven guilty, remember?) well, tough tits. We ain’t gonna hear anything we haven’t heard before, but hearing why these people actually did it from their own mouths might prove worthwhile on some level. It won’t change anything. They can’t do this without convicting themselves with their own words, so quite frankly it’ll be something of a convenience. And, therefore, Obama hardly went out on a limb.
If we deny them this, then we’ll be doing their worst work for them by destroying our own cherished freedom. Gotta dig the irony.
As for New York City surviving this, New York’s been a target for a long, long time. George Metesky, the Wall Street bombings of 1919 and 1920, the owners of the Triangle Shirt Factory, the bank bombings of 1972 — terrorism is to the Big Apple what marijuana is to a Los Angeles temperance worker. And if the trial is anywhere else — ANYWHERE at all — New York City does not become a smaller target. It will remain a target as long as it remains America’s international city.
Besides, New York can use the tourist revenue.
R. Maheras
November 22, 2009 - 3:23 pm
Why are you reminding ME of “innocent until proven guilty”? Why don’t you remind Obama and Holder? If I were one of the lead parties in this whole affair, I NEVER would have made the statements both have made “convicting” these guys in advance.
This administartion has dug itself into a hole that they may never be able to get out of.
These guys are enemy combatants, but since they are in a stateless army, it has been argued by some legal experts that they do not fall under the Geneva convention. But even if they did, they would not have been let loose — they would have been tried as war criminals for intentionally targeting and killing defenseless noncombatants.
Mike Gold
November 23, 2009 - 7:23 am
Russ, I wasn’t reminding YOU of “innocent until proven guilty.” I put it out there for everyone, including our ruling officials present and former. I agree with you, I don’t think Obama should have found them guilty in advance of trial — I was even pissed off that Nixon did that to Manson, for crying out loud. However, unlike Manson, those about to go on trial in Manhattan (a few blocks from the World Trade Center site, a nice touch) do seem to have admitted their guilt… but not in a court of law.
I don’t know what an enemy combatant is other than a participant on the other side in some sort of war. Well, obviously it’s someone Dick Cheney decided to torture, incarcerate illegally, and deny the most basic of human rights in lieu of due process of law.
However, again, I agree with you: they should have been tried as war criminals for intentionally targeting and killing defenseless noncombatants.
John Tebbel
November 23, 2009 - 7:25 am
These guys are criminals, enemies of all mankind, including their parents, their children and the little girl who lives down the lane. They did their murdering here, we’ll put them away here. Hangin’s too good for them.
Wars are between nation states. Use of the term in this country shows what nasty chumps we’ve become, war on drugs, war on poverty, war on cancer, war on Iraq, Gulf War.
Last war worth the name and the national struggle it implies was WW2. We were suckered into all the rest, Korea, etc. It’s so good for business you see, and the business of America is business. Health care, general welfare, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. When you can sell guns?
If we actually had a war around here lately we wouldn’t yak about it so much. Appomattox+ 144
Alan Coil
November 23, 2009 - 8:40 am
If you are living a fearful life, you aren’t really living a life.
Vinnie Bartilucci
November 23, 2009 - 9:24 am
“the owners of the Triangle Shirt Factory”
An odd inclusion – I’ve never once heard of the factory being a deliberate act. Can you clarify?
These guys have to have a trial, a public one, period. If they should die in captivity, or get hit by a car, or if a bolt of lightning hits them, it will be seen as an act of hippocracy. So they’re going to get their chance to talk.
It would be really cool if the news media chose not to report on it, sticking only to the prosecution’s case, and limiting the rest to “the defense chose to debate politics rather than defend against the allegations”.
Vinnie Bartilucci
November 23, 2009 - 9:31 am
Hmm, a news item at Fox says:
Scott Fenstermaker, the lawyer for accused terrorist Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, said the men would not deny their role in the 2001 attacks but “would explain what happened and why they did it.”
So, that means they’re…confessing? Well, that certainly saves time. Kind of puts them in the same boat as the Wichita guy, don’t it? You know…stupid.
http://tinyurl.com/yk5gk8m
Mike Gold
November 23, 2009 - 9:32 am
Alan, show me a man without fear and I’ll show you a blind guy running from a fat guy in a white suit.
John, we were carefully suckered into WWII as well. That might have been a good thing, but nonetheless we were suckered into it by the Brits — including Ian Fleming, who was working out of the UK propaganda office in Rockefeller Plaza. And by FDR, of course. America was quite an isolationist country and actually shared some common attitudes with the Third Reich in terms of a “business über alles” attitude.
The only serious miscalculation FDR and Churchill made in 1941 after cutting Japan off of iron, steel and oil shipments was in their belief that Japan would target the Phillipines and THAT would force the US into the War. They were wrong; it turns out the Japanese could make it to Pearl Harbor and back. Same end result, though, except we had a lot fewer battleships to float across the Pacific for a while.
Mike Gold
November 23, 2009 - 9:36 am
Vinnie, they’re not confessing. They’re pleading not guilty. That allows them a trial. All they’re doing is making certain they lose and, in so doing, get themselves their 72 virgins.
Which is silly. The last thing you want is to have 72 deflowered virgins hanging around you for all eternity. A couple, maybe. 72? I’d kill myself. Wait… that won’t work in the afterlife…
Vinnie Bartilucci
November 23, 2009 - 11:06 am
Bill Maher once commented on the curious number of virgins, noting that’s a number from a culture based on barter. They were likely haggling on the number, and settled at 72.