MICHAEL DAVIS WORLD

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Abortion and the Obliteration of Women… By Whitney Farmer – Un Pop Culture

May 25, 2011 Whitney Farmer 0 Comments

Whitney runs a rock music venue on the beach in L.A.. She has an M.B.A, and will likely be despised by both Red and Blue states after this column.

Results of the most recent census data in India reveal the dramatic rise of female selective abortions, termed foeticide in the international press coverage. The rates are estimated to be between 6 and 8 million sex-selective terminations in that country over the last decade.  Contrary to supposition, these rates are higher in affluent and educated population centers due to the dependence on ultrasound technology for gender determination and the access to abortion services. Researchers from Toronto University’s Center for Global Health estimate that there have been approximately 12 million gender-based abortions conducted in India over the past 30 years, keeping pace with the rise of ultrasound service access.

The social causes for the trend in that country have been linked to the still-prevalent custom of dowry marriages. However, that same trend is present in all countries with access to ultrasound and abortion services, even without a dowry tradition. The rate increases with economic affluence and education.

Beyond the immediately troubling implications of these statistics, there are genetic ramifications that need to be analyzed. Generally, for every 100 females that are conceived, there are 110 males conceived. But from the moment of conception and throughout every demographic in life, more males die than females.  Initially, this appears due to genetic hardiness that is provided to females as a result of having two of the same chromosomes – XX – rather than one of each in males – XY. The theory is that there is a shield in the event that there is an abnormality in one. Without intervention, more males are miscarried than females. After birth, more males die from all causes than females within the same age bracket.  Within the years of fertility, the population numbers are relatively even. Beyond that, females begin to outpace males in numbers. How will tipping the population scale even more dramatically affect us…?

The numbers in Jhajjar, the hub of gender-selected abortions, are estimated to be 87.4 females to 100 males brought to term.  Rather than demonstrating a model of widespread reproductive freedom, accounts of social pressure to abort daughters appear to be astonishingly acceptable and endemic. And India is not alone in this trend.

In the United States, innovations in contraceptive technology have slowed nearly to a halt since Roe v. Wade. Choices have remained stagnant, limited to variations of hormone level manipulations only available to women. The potential life-threatening consequences of blood-clot related complications are also borne only by women.  Statistically, the presence of a fail-safe procedure in the event of contraceptive failure has led to less innovation in research and development.  And because innovations could lead to a consequent decrease in revenues to the medical establishment for abortion-related services, the financial incentives are negligible.

On the economic front, gender equality continues to manifest in the workplace as gender neutrality. Women still walk in the door worth less because they have ovaries and a womb. The Mommy Track compensation structure continues to be viewed as both morally defensible and economically viable. In a recent book ‘The Psychopath Test’ by Jon Ronsom, the author describes a 4 times greater incidence of psychopathic traits in executive levels of business. These traits, simplified as a severe absence of empathy, statistically provide economic advantages. Childbearing statistically increases economic fragility and de facto provides a compulsion towards reduced fertility as a matter of necessity rather than choice.

Because contraceptive technology advances have stagnated in lieu of dependence on a gatekeeper-dependent, financially motivated abortion infrastructure, it must be concluded that women have encountered decreased reproductive freedom rather than increased options.

As a Christian living in a world where women are raped by fathers and brothers and cousins and loves and strangers, I’m not given an easy way out. How I view abortion needs to be formed and tested by what is in scripture.  When I read the scriptures however, rather than swallowing what someone with an unwholesome agenda spits up, I find instructions that differ sometimes dramatically from what is described by the politically ambitious as being the Word of the Lord.

In scripture, I find that the victim of rape is blameless and that all of the guilt connected with that act rests on the attacker. Wouldn’t this mean a subsequent abortion, if it is in fact a sin? I find that when two men get in a fight and that – during that fight – one accidently injures the pregnant wife of the other and causes a miscarriage, this is a property crime and not manslaughter. I read that rights of ownership begin with birth. I read that there is enmity between the serpent and women from the beginning. And I read that all these events occur under the gaze of the One who formed us and knew us before we were born.

For me, some abortions would be compromise. I believe in God, and that means perks as well as accountability. For me, an abortion could mean that I was too frightened to admit that my strength had failed. Pulpits in America brag about gluttony but speak with contempt about sexual desire. Not biblical, but unfortunately true, and peer pressure is an unholy beast to resist.  For me, having an abortion could mean that I had been too frightened to admit that my God provides for all of my needs, including financial. If I was told to terminate for health reasons? I don’t know what I’d do because I have, at best, guarded trust in a profit-motivated medical system. If I was raped? I would probably carry the child to term, but not because I believe that it would be sinful to abort. In reading scripture, there are precedents that suggest that any weight of the blood guilt of this would rest on the shoulders of the attacker. But I would want to carry to term because I would want to be noncompliant enough to not give my money to a medical establishment that is making a killing on harvesting women’s bodies, and profiting from killing women before they are born. I might decide to give the child up for adoption, but I’d still want to be contrary enough to bring life out of the darkness of a brutal and violent act.  I would pray to God that she would be a girl. And I would give her the name of a warrior.

Quote of the Blog, from ‘Me and Bobby McGee’, by Janice Joplin: “Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose…”

 

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Comments

  1. Moriarty
    May 26, 2011 - 12:12 am

    Whitney,

    First of all, I pray you never have to make that choice because of a rape. And isn’t getting a non-believer to pray qualify you for one less day in purgatory or something?

    Since I am a blue spot in a red blotch in a blue state, I conflicted on whether or not to despise you. Since the only thing I’ve ever actually despised is almonds, I’ll give you a pass, this once.

    It seems like eliminating women as a gender would be a pretty bad idea for continuation of the species. I read somewhere that for most of the third world, social security is having male children. Perhaps if we equalized the worth of women in the workplace it would no longer matter if that child were a boy or girl. I’m just saying.

    Psychopathic executives? Yeah, that makes sense.

    I don’t know how to form this idea into a coherent argument, but it seems to me the pro-life fight is less about saving children than it is about controlling people.

  2. Martha Thomases
    May 26, 2011 - 6:20 am

    Whatever you feel about abortion, sweetie, you make an excellent argument in favor of choice. Which means, you, the person who carries the baby and gives birth, get to decide whether to go through with it.

    As someone who has had both an abortion and a child, I think I made the right choice both times. When I had the abortion, I wasn’t ready to be a parent. My birth control method had failed. I didn’t know the father all that well. Six years later, I was in a better place, married, and sick of going out to clubs.

    When my kid was born, he was six weeks early, under five pounds, and we went through three weeks of terror that he might die or be brain-damaged. We didn’t particularly care about his gender. We just wanted him to make it through. I hope the parents in India don’t have to go through that.

  3. Mike Gold
    May 26, 2011 - 7:42 am

    Gender-based abortion is certainly not exclusive to India, and execution of female newborns goes back to the dawn of history. I say this as a matter of history and not as an excuse for anybody. Agrarian cultures equated male babies with future farmhands. Cultures where war was frequent saw male babies as needed cannon fodder. Kings saw males as a source for taxes.

    Looking at gendercide from a sexual gratification perspective, it’s ridiculously shortsighted and completely counterproductive. Fewer women means more agression among men who have something necessary to fight for. That means more men get killed. Which means that society needs more replacements. Which means more female babies get murdered, more female fetuses get aborted. And the music goes ’round and ’round.

    This is why I believe one of the few restrictions on human cloning should be gender-promotion. Don’t know how you enforce that one, but if you don’t, at least there’s less pressure to off female newborns or terminate gender-specific pregnancies.

    Rape is unforgivable under any circumstance. It may be more prevalent in societies where women are considered sub-human, but those societies are being maintained by socially criminal shitheads who should be flung into the sea.

    Oh, and for the record, music Nazi that I am, Janis spelled her name Janis, and the song “Me and Bobby McGee” was written by Kris Kristofferson and Fred Foster. The late Roger Miller had a hit with it before Janis…

    … who I miss dearly and play all the time. As Jeff Blackburn (of the Ducks) wrote, it’s better to burn out than it is to rust.

  4. Jonathan (the other one)
    May 26, 2011 - 8:01 am

    For what it’s worth, Whitney, I haven’t found anything in Scripture yet that forbids abortion. The Bible doesn’t seem to address questions like “when life begins”, save to note that boys in the tribes of Israel weren’t required to be circumcised until they were 8 days old. (The closest I’ve found is in Genesis 2, where the first man was lifeless clay until YHVH “breathed the breath of life into his nostrils”, which I suppose means mouth-breathers aren’t really alive…)

    The oldest references I’ve been able to find that forbid abortion to Christians seem to have emanated from various Popes, which means that if you’re a good Catholic you can’t do it – but I fail to understand why that same restriction must be applied to Protestants (especially those Charismatic groups that seem to think the Pope is evil; if you don’t believe him, why are you insisting on obeying his strictures?).

    And there is indeed ongoing research into a male contraceptive. Unfortunately, it appears to be considerably more difficult to trick a male metabolism into temporary sterility – most attempts so far have resulted in either permanent sterility, undesirable behavioral changes, or both. The first pharmaceutical company to bring a Man Pill to the market is going to become wealthy (or even wealthier), though, so they’re still trying…

  5. Bill Mulligan
    May 26, 2011 - 8:08 am

    “However, that same trend is present in all countries with access to ultrasound and abortion services, even without a dowry tradition. The rate increases with economic affluence and education.”

    Wouldn’t that include the USA? I have seen no evidence for widespread gender based abortion here, though I do not doubt it occurs. In fact, I recall one article that claimed that most of the people in the USA who attempt sex selection in vitro fertilization (which has only about a 75% chance of working in getting the desired gender) are trying to have girls. We may be the exception, of course.
    .
    “This is why I believe one of the few restrictions on human cloning should be gender-promotion. Don’t know how you enforce that one, but if you don’t, at least there’s less pressure to off female newborns or terminate gender-specific pregnancies.”

    Not sure I understand what you mean, Mike. What is gender-promotion cloning?

  6. Mike Gold
    May 26, 2011 - 8:31 am

    Cloning men to produce boys for the purpose of producing boys, cloning women to produce girls for the purpose of producing girls. I did say I didn’t know how you’d enforce such a prohibition.

  7. Bill Mulligan
    May 26, 2011 - 8:52 am

    But by definition when you clone someone you will be, by necessity, getting their sex. I have never heard of anyone cloning someone JUST to get a male, any male. That would be far easier to accomplish with basic in vitro and then just selecting the embryo of the desired sex.

    And if you would not legislate against abortion if done for reasons of sex selection, by what logic would you outlaw cloning or in vitro for the same desired effect? (I am making the not inconsiderable leap in assuming you would not outlaw sex selection abortion based only on your not mentioning any desire to do so in your post, so I could be way off there.)

  8. R. Maheras
    May 26, 2011 - 9:39 am

    The whole issue of “abortion on demand” has always troubled me. Arguments for it mostly ring hollow, whether I look at the topic with my science hat or my beliefs hat on.

    From a scientific point of view, the pro-abortion argument that the fetus is somehow not a real human until it pops out of the birth canal is ludicrous — yet most in the “pro” camp won’t give on the issue because they are afraid if they do, it will weaken their platform. After all, if they concede that birth is not the “it’s a human” cut-off point, when does the fertilized egg actually cross into that threshold? Far smarter people than I have been arguing that very point for generations, and despite our advances in medical and monitoring technology, the argument still rages.

    I do find it curious, however, that many pro-choice people are liberals, and liberals are notorious for believing that the individual is too dumb to make his/her own decisions on a myriad of mundane, everyday affairs, and are OK with the government stepping in to lead them by the nose. Yet, in the case of abortion, a very complex issue with many important ramifications for both the individual AND society at large, all of a sudden it’s OK to allow any female who is pregnant and has a pulse to make the decision to terminate a life.

    Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

  9. Mike Gold
    May 26, 2011 - 10:06 am

    Bill, you’re right. It’s not an inconsiderable leap. I said that such a sanction on cloning would be unenforceable, and I’m opposed to any limits on abortion. So you’re right on the money. But I can see one hypothetical reason why GIRLS would be cloned: as sex worker mills. Not certain that would be cost-effective, but nonetheless that would be disgusting to say the least.

    Russ, I love you like a brother (an older brother, which is weird because I think I’m older than you), but I don’t give a damn who labels fetuses (feti?) what. You think it’s a full human being, awesome. Don’t abort that fetus in your belly (although in your case you’d be saving yourself from an inevitable c-section). You think it isn’t a human being until its zeroth birthday, awesome. Go for it. Not my call. I am pro-abortion because once you strip away the self-serving religious considerations, it’s nobody’s business.

    That, to me, is a truly conservative position. You brand liberals as hypocrites and I basically agree, but not in the case of this issue. I’m not a liberal, I’m not a progressive. I’m so fucking radical that I embrace a great many old-school conservative beliefs, starting with “mind your own business.”

    The clinical definition of life is meaningless. There are lives we terminate all the time. War, executions, practicing terrorists, the terminally ill, people who can’t afford health care… “Pro-life” is completely bullshit. Nobody’s pro-life. Pro-lifers wouldn’t buy hand sanitizers. Carrying a child to term and surrendering it to a baby farm is another CHOICE. So is selling it on the open market, pre-birth or post-birth. The former is completely legal and there’s a huge industry of lawyers and social service agencies that make a lot of money off of it. The latter is sort of legal. It’s called “adoption” and a lot of people are making a buck off of that as well. Always have. I’m not necessarily opposed to that (outside of the red tape and the onerous profits), but keep in mind these people make less money where abortion is legal.

    Bottom line: yep, it’s OK to allow any female who is pregnant and has a pulse to make the decision to terminate a life. Or a fetus. Or a zygote. Or a goddamned basketball stuffed in her womb. It’s her decision to do so, it’s her decision not to do so. It ain’t mine, it ain’t yours.

  10. Whitney
    May 26, 2011 - 11:18 am

    Bill Mulligan –

    This trend began to be identified in the United States as a result of the 2000 census, which again coincides with a correlation of access to prenatal testing such as on-demand ultrasound services and blood work. There is a possibility that gender-based terminations were occurring at higher rates before, but I’m not sure if the data was gathered that would allow this determination.

    Here is one link to some research presented at the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in 2008:

    http://www.pnas.org/content/105/15/5681.abstract

  11. Whitney
    May 26, 2011 - 11:23 am

    Mike, loved Golden Boy –

    THANK GOD for the music police…! I honestly put Janis’ name on the quote as a placeholder, knowing that it didn’t feel accurate and intending to go back and fact-check. Then, I apparently got distracted by a large ball of yarn or a laser light and hit the ‘send’ button before doing my duty.

    You have my enthusiastic permission to call me any number of mistaken names that I will answer to, all bestowed by tipsy club patrons: Brittany, Wendy, or Slinky.

  12. Bill Mulligan
    May 26, 2011 - 11:33 am

    “But I can see one hypothetical reason why GIRLS would be cloned: as sex worker mills. Not certain that would be cost-effective, but nonetheless that would be disgusting to say the least.”

    Wow, that never occurred to me and yeah, that’s repulsive. And while my first instinct is to say it would be foolish to spend that kind of money on cloning when experience shows that almost any woman can be exploited in the sex trade, my second thought is how much money would a cloned Scarlett Johanson bring? Third thought–in the future down on their luck celebrities could make money selling their genetic copyright to the unscrupulous for reasons benign (someone wants a kid with moviestar looks) to the execrable (the obvious).

    “Pro-lifers wouldn’t buy hand sanitizers.” Oh come on. reducto ad insaneium. That’s like saying nobody is “pro-choice” because they do not allow people to “choose” to shoot congresswomen. Let’s not become slaves to semantics.

    If a person decides that a fetus is a human life they almost have an obligation to oppose abortion or at least come up with a valid reason why not to and I don;t think “It’s none of my business” is a very compelling one. Allowing wrongs to happen, especially wrongs you are supporting with tax dollars makes you complicit. Would you support allowing business’ to discriminate on the basis of sex, race, orientation, whatever, just so long as you yourself don’t have to go along with that?

    (One COULD make that argument. I think that any business that openly discriminated would pay a price and maybe it would be best if people were open in their bigotries and suffered the consequences than just pretend to go along as they do now. But that’s pretty debatable.)

    The best arguments for legal abortion are not, to me, that it’s not my business because it does not directly affect me but that the cost of making it illegal is too high and outweighs the benefits. There are problems with this and I freely admit that a better person than me might look at the harm to a 9 month old fetus and the harm to a pregnant woman and not, as I would do, lean far more to the grown woman. ANY position on abortion has some virtually undefendable consequences, I think.

    I mean, the “no restrictions until right up to the moment of birth” side is not exactly cut and dry. Seriously? halfway out? What if we don;t cut the cord? It’s impossible not to conclude that a 9 month old fetus is a separate life from its mother–we’ve cut living kids from the bellies of mothers who were dead. A woman performing an abortion on a kids days from birth because she does not want that particular sex would appall any normal person.

    But weird cases seldom make good laws and, as I said, any position will lead to people giving scenarios that look bad. There is no good one. So you go for the one that does the least harm, I think. But I can’t get too mad at people who come to a different conclusion on what “the least harm” is.

    (Anyone who wants to go on the attack along the lines of “How DARE you imply that a woman would EVER undergo such a GUT WRENCHING decision as an ABORTION for such a RIDICULOUS reason…!” can save their breath, I’ve lived long enough to know that there is virtually no action so insane, narcissistic, cruel, mindless and depraved that someone hasn’t done it and isn’t doing it. Quite likely, they have a facebook page devoted to it. I’ve known women who had abortions that they never got over; those who did it and it was no more upsetting than a root canal, those who felt they had no choice and those did it for reasons that make one look away. It’s a big world)

    (and I congratulate you on being consistent–I have feminist friends who claim to be hardcore pro-choice my body my right nobody elses business what I do who suddenly are all for passing laws against abortion for sex selection. Which would be ok with me except they refuse to see even the slightest bit of disconnect there and insist that “This is different!” which is the all encompassing “argument” people use to deny their contradictions.)

    One final thought–some have claimed that a surplus of men will inevitably lead to war and aggression and that what is needed is a surplus of the calming effect of more women than men. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Germany, which in the years prior to WWII had something like 2 million more women than men as a result of WWI. Didn’t work out so hot. That said, I can’t see any good coming from an 87 to 100 female to male ratio. You might think that it would increase the status and value of women and it will, in the same way that the rhinoceros becoming extinct has been s boon to those who sell rhino horns. The abuse of women will get even worse, with an increasingly small number of available women being sold into virtual slavery at a young age to provide wives for those precious boy babies.

    Like the singer sang;

    Well I’m proud to be an American,
    at least I know I’m free
    and I don’t live
    in those places
    that suck beyond all meaningful comprehension
    seriously, what did I do in a previous life
    to deserve that kind of luck?
    ‘Cause it ain’t perfect but Damn! look at the alternatives!
    God bless the USA!

  13. Bill Mulligan
    May 26, 2011 - 11:41 am

    Whitney, I see that the paper showed likely gender selection in U.S.-born children of Chinese, Korean, and Asian Indian parents but none in Whites (don’t know if any other ethnic groups were studied). If true it would appear that some immigrants are bringing this highly unfortunate cultural practice with them. I suspect we will see the effect dwindle to nothing in subsequent generations.

    You know, when we look at the future and our increasing competition with the rest of the world, we can take some solace in the fact that some of the purported up and comers have a terrible flaw–they have too little regard for women. You can only get so far when you write off half your population.

  14. Whitney
    May 26, 2011 - 11:45 am

    Amazing Martha –

    I am navigating in unknown territory in this issue, and the closest I have gotten is running through the ‘what of…?’ scenario in my own head. When I don’t have a clear direct instruction from above — which I have honestly gotten on some occasions — my responsibility is to ponder what is the heart and intention of God by reading scripture. As of now, I still don’t have complete clarity. Sometimes I can comfortably make a leap. For example, the scriptures don’t say ‘Don’t shoot heroin’, but there are warnings about using drugs in order to get in touch wih God. It’s dangerous to open doors indiscriminately. Anyone living in L.A., Fresno, or Detroit can tell you that.

    And if I did have a specific word, my next responsibility is ‘me first’. And there have been times when the word for me has been different than a word for another person.

    I’m still trying to figure this all out in a true way.

    I’m glad about your boy. And from what I’ve read, his mind is functioning beautifully.

  15. Whitney
    May 26, 2011 - 11:57 am

    Jonathan (the other one) –

    You have touched importantly on a big concern of mine, the true status of CHOICE. Again, if innovation comes to a halt and people are directed down a narrowing path that requires pricey gatekeepers and physical jeopardy to get to where you want to be, despite saying that it is a ‘choice’, isn’t that just a PR spin written by corporations who have a lucrative vested interest in making you do it their way…?

    This is personally significant to me because one day I expect to need to a solution. Since I am over 35 and don’t think that strokes, pulmonary embolisms, or heart attacks are what I want in my life, my REAL choices are limited. My solution is that I’m basically visualizing what it will be like to be a mom some day, even as we speak.

  16. Whitney
    May 26, 2011 - 12:07 pm

    R. Maheras –

    I understand completely you feeling conflicted. So much of the dialogue from people who say they are speaking for the Lord is completely without the irrefutable calling card of the Almighty: Love. Why doesn’t anyone confess the truth that – if God wanted to judge us now – we would definately be aware of it? We obviously are living in a time of mercy and the hope of reconciliation.

    Just to be clear, for the record, I am very anti-Moloch. One of the worst, and one that I want to give zero territory. The problem is how to spot it when the bad guys come at you sideways…

  17. Whitney
    May 26, 2011 - 12:09 pm

    Moriarty –

    Almond trees are the first to bloom in the Spring. Quit being so judgemental…

  18. Mike Gold
    May 26, 2011 - 2:06 pm

    Bill, the hand sanitizer line was a bit of whimsy, the type for which I am known. Again, you pegged it right with “reducto ad insaneium.” Which is a brilliant line. Everybody knows bacteria aren’t alive, they’re half-alive. As for allowing wrongs to happen that we support with our tax dollars, well, yeah, I felt that way about the Vietnam War and I still feel that way about Iraq. Taxes are not OUR money, and in concept they’re not a bad idea. But tax money is the governments’ money — it is our legal obligation to pay it and we have no other choice than to elect Ron Paul. If the governments want to spend it on things I find repulsive (such as tax cuts to the super-rich) all I can do is not vote for the local jerks who support it. If the feds paid for Lester Maddox’s axe-handles, I’d be pissed. But there’s so much to be pissed over all I’d have time to do is be pissed. And that’s way people go into talk radio.

    I would rather people be upfront about their bigotry, and that’s my main argument against politically correct language. Makes it easier to find out who to avoid. Or confront. What we’ve done is teach bigots how to hide under sanitized language.

  19. Moriarty
    May 26, 2011 - 3:26 pm

    Whitney,
    During my 22 mile, rural commute, if I’m not passing through grape vineyards, I’m driving along almond orchards. I have no issues with almond trees and their lovely blossoms, although orange blossoms kick almond blossoms little white-pedaled asses. I just don’t care for the nut.

    It probably stems (stems, get it?) from the almond trees in our yard when I was a kid, where my dad had us pick the almonds, break them out of the husk, crack them out of the shell, and roast them in the oven. I just didn’t think the final product was worth it. Hang on, I just gagged a little thinking about them. Anyway, I know most people love almonds, I don’t. Same with coffee. Please respect my “choice” not to consume almonds as I will respect, and defend, your “choice” to eat them.

    Slinky? Some day I’m just going to have to see you dance. Or did you get that nickname because of the way you walk down stairs?

  20. Mike Gold
    May 26, 2011 - 7:29 pm

    Moriarty, I’m with you — down on almonds and coffee, up on orange blossoms, up on choice.

  21. Bill Mulligan
    May 26, 2011 - 7:50 pm

    Mike, that’s one reason why I think it was a huge mistake for some libertarians and conservatives to oppose aspects of the civil rights movement based on the idea that it infringed on property rights–as though getting rid of the Jim Crow Laws was an imposition on how people conducted themselves. Actually, the Jim Crow laws were direct attacks on the right of people to do business as they pleased. If the guy behind the counter at that drugstore WANTED to serve those black students he would have been prohibited by law to do so. Segregation was enforced at the pointy of the sword, on all races. I don’t know if the government should force people to not be bigots but I KNOW that it should not force people to BE bigots.

  22. Doug Abramson
    May 26, 2011 - 8:51 pm

    Just to put my two cents in…I’ve always felt that abortion should be “on demand” until the end of the second trimester. Since the odds of a fetus surviving out of the womb during the period is almost zero and I think that women should be in charge of their bodies; I can’t come up with any reason to prevent abortions from happening. The last trimester is a slightly different story. Since the viability of the fetus out side the womb becomes a realistic argument in the last trimester, I think that a woman that couldn’t come to a decision about terminating the pregnancy in the first six months should come to term. The exceptions to this are when the woman’s health is in jeopardy form the pregnancy or the pregnancy is the result of incest or rape. A woman who is facing these type of situations should be given by society more time to deal with the extra emotional issues involved in deciding on how to deal with their pregnancy. Not to mention that a threat to the woman’s health can develop at any time during a pregnancy. That is as conservative as abortion laws can get, in my opinion, without totally ignoring women’s civil rights. If the laws become more liberal than this; I might not like them, but I’m never gonna BE pregnant.

  23. Whitney
    May 27, 2011 - 4:41 am

    Doug Abramson –

    It’s been intriguing for me to see how the dialogue has developed as a result of this column. For me, it was about defining what truely is the result of what we have termed ‘choice’. I see less of my kind seeing the light of day, and I see my (our) choices diminishing in the face of financial incentives that have been crafted by corporations. New contraceptive options are only variations on options that have existed for forty years. What other industrial sector exhibits such failure to produce intellectual capital?

    What we are left with are sound bites that tell us how much freedom we have, but no increase of choices that don’t require money and a gatekeeper’s permission and services. How can this be defined as choice…? Add to this the coercion of women in developing countries to subject their bodies to procedures that will increase the wealth of others, and the connection to freedom thins out even more.

  24. Whitney
    May 27, 2011 - 4:47 am

    Bill Mulligan –

    It’s true that the article discusses the rates in non-white and often immigrant populations being higher in their incidences of gender-based terminations. What I wonder is what would white people do if social security or medicare are dismantled… Since their girl babies earn less and they might have to depend on the income of their children to support them – as immigrant populations often have had to do prior to arriving in America – would their pattern erode and replicate those who have come from less priviledged backgrounds?

  25. Whitney
    May 27, 2011 - 4:50 am

    Mike Gold and Moriarty –

    Down with coffee??? What kind of intelligensia are you??

  26. Mike Gold
    May 27, 2011 - 7:17 am

    Bill, the idea of allowing abortions in the case incest or rape when they would otherwise be banned always confuses me. Keeping in mind I’m in favor of the choice to abortion in all circumstances, it seems to me that if a person defines abortion as the destruction of life then incest or rape wouldn’t mitigate that. Like I said, that’s confusing to me but there’s probably something I just can’t understand because I don’t get the concept of pre-birth life. The woman’s health, yes, certainly. If it’s one life over another, either/or, then let’s protect the one we’ve got instead of rolling the dice.

    Whitney, I prefer my caffeine straight. No chaser. And the way coffee prices are skyrocketing, I’d rather buy gasoline.

  27. Moriarty
    May 27, 2011 - 7:26 am

    Whitney,
    do you see what you’ve done here? You’ve opened a conversation on what could be the most emotional topic discussed today, and the conversation remained civil from one end to the other.

    Oh, and to add to the weirdness; I really love the smell of brewing coffee in the morning. I don’t know about Mr. Gold, but I’m rarely associated with the term intelligensia.

  28. Mike Gold
    May 27, 2011 - 10:09 am

    I think the Intelligensia is an offshoot of the Illuminati.

    Wherein lies a story I’ll have to tell sometime.

  29. Whitney
    May 27, 2011 - 2:09 pm

    Over coffee.

  30. Mike Gold
    May 27, 2011 - 6:29 pm

    I’d kill for a great chocolate double malt.

    With caffeine.

  31. Whitney
    June 8, 2011 - 10:25 am

    Amazing Martha –

    This guy is just out for revenge and his actions rank ‘zero’ on the nobility scale.

    If he really has spiritual convictions regarding sexual purity and when life begins, why did he have premarital sex in the first place…?

  32. Martha Thomases
    June 8, 2011 - 12:44 pm

    With technology the way it is, any cell can be grown into another person. So men should be worried that they, too, might be prosecuted for killing the unborn.

  33. Bill Mulligan
    June 9, 2011 - 11:30 am

    Whitney says:

    What I wonder is what would white people do if social security or medicare are dismantled… Since their girl babies earn less and they might have to depend on the income of their children to support them – as immigrant populations often have had to do prior to arriving in America – would their pattern erode and replicate those who have come from less priviledged backgrounds?

    Me: I suspect not and, indeed, it could arguably improve the desire to have girls. “A son is a son ’till he takes a wife but a daughter’s a daughter the rest of her life.” Although there are many many exceptions to this generalization, I have found it more likely than not that the care of aging parents falls onto the adult daughters of those parents. An aging parent with many daughters is less likely to end up on the street.

    It’s also the case that in this country there are few barriers to women earning income, whereas the truly anti-women cultures have pretty much limited opportunities to either wife/mother or the sex trade. So even if the (highly unlikely, in my opinion, despite the scare tactics of the political class) social safety net vanishes, I don;t think we will be turning into Somalia vis a vis women any time soon.

  34. Whitney
    June 9, 2011 - 5:28 pm

    Bill Mulligan –

    …(economic opportunities) of wife/mother or sex trade (in developing countries…

    Unfortunately, we need to add “dowry fodder” to that list. Despite being banned, this practice appears to be one of the driving forces behind gender selected abortions. Parents of a daughter pay big for her to marry. Parents of a son get a big payday when their son marries. This is the same practice that contributes to the illegal but prevalent practice of bride-burnings. When a bride ‘accidently’ falls into the kitchen fire and is immolated, the widower is free to marry another bride. And reap another dowry.

    Once upon a time, this is why women were encouraged to commit suttee (sp?) and jump into their husband’s funeral pyre. That, because of the cultural belief that the female force of creation or “shakti” had to be contained in marriage or all hindu hell would break loose. This is part of the reason why Indira Gandhi rose to power in such a misogynistic land: She had refused to immolate herself when her husband died. The belief then became, “What now would be the limits of her power…?” That awe got her elected.

    Don’t know if that’s good PR, or bad.

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