Feminine Wilds, by Tatiana – In The Mix #6
January 22, 2009 Tatiana EL-Khouri 20 Comments
Earlier this week, I caught up with a couple of young female artists. The conversation ran the gamut from our favorite reality shows we hate to admit we follow to establishing our artwork and presence in a new city.
We spent a great deal of our time discussing how to navigate the art world amidst the predatory men that try to take advantage of a young woman’s innocence or desire to move ahead in the industry.
The question of the hour was, As a young attractive female professional, how do you deal with a man in the industry that has power but has a sleazy demeanor?
The question made me smile, because I realized that was an issue I focused a lot of my energy on in the beginning of my art career and my formative education years trying to figure out.
In my younger years, my inner feminist was quick to jump on a soapbox and stand up for myself at the drop of the dime if I ever felt belittled, demeaned, or objectified by a man opposed to evaluated for my talents and resume.
Now I simply don’t let that phase me.
For every man out there that abuses the idea of the “casting couch,” there are many more decent, commendable men that do not prey on the feminine wilds of the young and will take your work seriously.
I learned that lesson from the great MOTU.
A few years ago when I asked him the same question, his response was- as a young professional I should focus my energy on improving my craft and being about the work. Focusing on how to change someone’s perspective that is sleazy or disrespectful is too large of a bill to accomplish.
It made complete sense!
I’ve never been a “Project Dater”- by that I mean the women who see a potential mate as a project that they can improve, like fine tuning a recipe. My time is precious and I’m very conscious of using it to the best of my ability. So why spend time trying to turn a caveman into an upright, thoughtful gentleman that values the merits of a hardworking woman?
That’s not me- I’m not that girl!
Martha Thomases
January 22, 2009 - 7:15 am
Maybe it’s because I’m older, or that when I was starting out, I had the privilege of working with women editors (writing is different that way, since traditionally book publishing pays so poorly that they had to hire women), but this wasn’t much of an issue for me.
The only time anyone ever suggested such a “pay for play” arrangement was the comic book store owner who said that he would stock my magazine if I’d do something for him.
Maybe I was just oblivious. That seems to me to be the best strategy – act as if the idea of sleeping with someone for work is simply unimaginable, and he must mean something else.
John Tebbel
January 22, 2009 - 7:52 am
As a co-owner of Ms. Thomases’s magazine I’m glad I’m hearing this story almost thirty years too late to have to go down to that store and re-acquaint that neighbor with how we treat ladies in the South Village, a hood that is traditionally rather conservative about such things (see Godfather trilogy).
And another example of the thousand points of extreme gravity so intense not even light can escape that are the bricks in the wall of the direct market.
Marc Fishman
January 22, 2009 - 9:29 am
My fiance and I have been together now for 8 years. We’ve been successful in the relationship because we never considered one another a “project”. In every industry there is sleaze, and idiocy. As the MOTU says, there simply isn’t a better way to move forward in life than to do it with class. I’d be of the mindset that the dirtbags out there aren’t worth our time, be it women or men. Everyone can be preyed upon, and it’s always up to our judgement to determine when we’re being led astray.
Those at the top, the real top, didn’t get there by sleeping with anyone… It’s optimistic to think that, but it’s what I choose to live by. Those with skill, patience, and class will always rise above those who would take shortcuts, are impetuous, or otherwize sleaze. And that applies to women and men.
Keu, Oh, The Talent
January 22, 2009 - 9:51 am
I feel you, Tatiana (figuratively, of course). I think the most dangerous time is when an artist is still too young (both in career and age) to have their values clearly defined. That’s a dangerous stage.
My advice to those young artist is to stay away from the assistant manager at Ralph’s in Van Nuys. When he proposes to you that “if you let him stock your shelve he’ll let you stock his” – JUST SAY NO! He doesn’t even have the power to hire you! Ah… that happened to a friend… ah… from what I’ve heard.
But in reality, Tatiana… the truth… could sexual harassment be fun if you’re attracted to the person harassing you? And what about a very powerful offer in exchange for services rendered? Where do you know to draw the line? Because if Oprah offered me 50 million dollars to be her pleasure toy, you can go ahead and start calling me Puerto Rican Stedman. But if MOTU offered me 50 million dollars for a back massage, I would have to just go ahead and give the homeless lifestyle a try.
Deacon Doug Johnson
January 22, 2009 - 11:17 am
Tatiana, this is a very thoughtful artifcle. It shows that you are a strong young women of integrety, with a strong sence of who you are and what you want. I chalenge you to continue to take bold stands for what you believe. Your are truly making a difference.
M.O.T.U
January 22, 2009 - 11:59 am
Tatiana,
I wrote an L O N G article some time back about the ‘casting couch” What I said then was, NO ONE in a REAL position of power will give you a job just because you sleep with them. Yep, there ARE sleaze bags out there that will ‘bait’ you with the promise of something but at the level where it will make or break your career that’s rare at most. Most people are smart enough not to muck up their careers with this type of crap.
Tatiana, how many times have we been to a social event and someone (men and women) assumed I’m ‘hitting that’ with regard to you.
How do you think that makes ME feel? What about me? What about my needs? I’m just so sick of being treated like a ‘boy toy’ I want to scream out as loud as I can I can…” DAMN IT, I’m an artist and by god YOU will respect me as such!”
Those people are just idiots. I mean can’t a very attractive younger woman and a stunning older man just be friends? Come on people it’s 2009 grow the fish up.
ANYBODY can take one look at Tatiana and see she’s not Asian!
Marc Fishman
January 22, 2009 - 2:06 pm
As a fish-man, I have to add that I too hate being abused and regarded as man-meat. To be paraded around, just because my beard is that awesome…it’s unfair. Now, what the fish is that about?
Dana Lamb
January 22, 2009 - 7:07 pm
As a college advisor to several generations of graduates over the years, I have had to address this issue over and over again which demonstrates a lack of evolution when it comes to the role of gender in the workplace. No matter what the industry or institution, the equation where men (and some women) in power decide that they are entitled to bully or coerce someone into a relationship is a disease of the weak and petty.
The simple fact is that the abuse will go on as long as the community accepts it as boorish behavior but not criminal. In my opinion, this needs to be addressed in two arenas; the courts and popular media. Like all abuses of power, it will take a series of high profile court cases to get the message out there. The sad part of this goal was illustrated during the appointment of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas when his own tacky behavior became public knowledge, and he was still given the job. You then have to look at popular television and films that seem to influence the majority of our nation and tally up the stereotypical images of men (and women) in power and ask the question whether we are really hostile to them when they decide that they deserve it all (including their subordinates) or do we secretly wish the same for ourselves?
Bottom line, we have some evolving to do.
M.O.T.U
January 22, 2009 - 7:53 pm
Dana said, “Like all abuses of power, it will take a series of high profile court cases to get the message out there.”
With all due respect Dana the last thing I think we need is more court cases with regard to the type of thing I think we are talking about.
So that I am CRYSTAL CLEAR lm talking about stupid little advances made by stupid little men or in my case women.
I am NOT talking about any situation where the person is treated SO badly that it affects them after they leave the office. That is indeed a case for the law and if it was my girl a well placed foot in someone’s ass.
I live in a town and work in an industry where people sue if you look at them funny. In the case of Clarence Thomas he was a dick acting like a dick and needed to be taken down a peg. All that happened however is he is now Chief Dick.
I feel that strong women like Tatiana are more than able to fend off idiots with a well placed word or look. These women are the rule now rater than the exception and I pity the man who tries some REAL dumb shit with Tatiana or someone of her ilk.
Lastly, welcome to the forum Dana. It may not look it from my colorful use of certain words but I have NOTHING but RESPECT for those in academia and I’m very glad to have your insight here.
MOTU
January 22, 2009 - 10:07 pm
Keu said;
“But if MOTU offered me 50 million dollars for a back massage, I would have to just go ahead and give the homeless lifestyle a try.”
If Charles Manson offered me 50million dollars for a back rub I would hand him the oil. If you would give up 50 mil AND go homeless than get a back rub from a man i suggest to you…a shrink.
Wait a sec…last week when we were at the Karoke bar did you think that was a WOMAN you were kissing?
Oh snap…
Keu, Oh, The Talent
January 22, 2009 - 11:20 pm
@ MOTU Your last comment sounded like a direct offer… are you offering me 50 mil? Because if you are… what I said earlier goes out the door, and I want a cashier’s check… if you’re not… then what I said before stands.
M.O.T.U
January 23, 2009 - 12:02 pm
@ kai,
You consider that a ‘direct offer’ what are you a lawyer? Only a lawyer (who can ALL kiss my ass unless they are working for me) would see that as a direct offer when none was made or implied.
Or is that wishful thinking?
For the record if I spent 50 million dollars on anything it better come with it’s own zip code.
Kai
January 23, 2009 - 12:22 pm
ummm did you mean that for Keu? or for me? you must have Kai on the brain
p.s. my sister is a lawyer, she’s cool, but NO WHERE near as cool as me
M.O.T.U
January 23, 2009 - 1:28 pm
To KAI-YES THAT WAS MEANT FOR KEU!!! OPPS
Tatiana
January 24, 2009 - 8:50 pm
Welcome to the site Doug and Dana! I’m glad to have you join in the discussion.
Tatiana
January 24, 2009 - 9:36 pm
@ Martha “Maybe I was just oblivious. That seems to me to be the best strategy ”
I think that is a really great way to look at things.
It does get a little harder when I’m in a business meeting and I’m told that “a little young lady shouldn’t be so serious, leave that to someone older.” When I hear something outlandish, I just smile and wow them with my smarts later.
E. Van Lowe
January 26, 2009 - 8:06 pm
Obviously that article hit a chord with people. I agree sexism in the workplace can be a terrible thing. I know you are on the right track, Tatiana…. Um, but does anyone out there know where I might purchase a ‘casting couch’? It’s not for me… It’s a gift.
M.O.T.U
January 26, 2009 - 8:19 pm
E,
There is a rule here at MDW, NO ONE can be funnier than MOTU! I will let it go this time because this was obviously a fluke and try as you may I’m sure it won’t happen again.
Ha.
Miles Vorkosigan
January 27, 2009 - 10:28 am
Then we’ve got a problem, MOTU. Because as funny as you are, there are folks funnier than you. The Marx Brothers, for three. Four, if you count Zeppo.
And I’ve been known to strike a humorous note on occasion. Maybe not as good as some of yours. but I give it a try.
And oh, yeah, Peter David is funnier that either of us. I’m talking sprained ribs. And I should know, because he is and ever will be my Evil Twin. Pudgier, yes. Richer and more Jewish, definitely. Married to a sweet lady with wonderful kids. assuredly. But apart from the facts that I’m poor, South’n, atheist, and childless unless you want to count the cats, we’re twins.
So there.
Miles
Marc Fishman
January 27, 2009 - 11:05 am
By Miles’ definition then, I am the evil twin of Geoff Johns… apart from the fact that I don’t write for DC yet, I have a beard, am poorer, more jewish, and living in Chicago. Wha? I’d like to think I’m funny. Atleast that’s what the high school kids who come out and see me do standup every month say. Then again, I buy them beer right before I ask. Hmm.