Call Any Vegetable, by Martha Thomases – Brilliant Disguise
September 25, 2010 Martha Thomases 0 Comments
In his column this week, my pal, Mike Gold, refers to ” smug oh-so-superior vegetarians.” These seem to be people who bully Mike about his food choices. While I have no doubt that such people exist, that hasn’t been my experience with vegetarians. However, let’s suppose, for a moment, that there are armies of self-righteous vegans out there, trying to pressure you into giving up meat, which they (rightly or wrongly) consider to be unhealthy. And they do this by using advertising to try to persuade you to agree with them.
Why is this bad? Again, without agreeing with their science or their preferred tactic (in this case, fear) or their strategy (brief television ads), why is it wrong for someone else to want you to be healthy? Do you prefer that they want you to be sick?
We live in a society where we directly or indirectly pay the high health care costs of our neighbors. Either our insurance rates are high, or our taxes support the expenses of those on Medicare and Medicaid. Even if you don’t give a crap about your neighbor, it is in your financial interests to keep our fellow citizens safe and well.
Obesity is a major health crisis in our country, and it would be a good thing if we could work together to find a solution. We won’t do this by nagging, but by sharing our experiences about what works for each of us, and what makes us feel good.
If anything, the most missionary food fundamentalists I’ve encountered have been Atkins Diet proponents. Because they feel better on a high-protein diet, they are out to convert those of us who love carbs. And yet, somehow, when a person criticizes my bowl of pasta, I don’t deride him as “smug oh-so-superior” meatist. I figure something makes him feel good, and it’s nice that he wants me to feel good, too.
We like simple answers in this country. We want something to be right or wrong, left or right, straight or gay, healthy or not. Unfortunately, this doesn’t seem to be the case for our physical bodies. If it were, one cancer treatment would work for every body, and I wouldn’t see kids die at the hospital on a regular basis.
Let’s stop trying to bully each other. Bullying is not persuasive. At best, it makes the victim defensive. At worst, it’s deadly. And if you don’t believe me, check out this video .
In the meantime, take a nice piece of fruit, and make your mother happy.
Media Goddess Martha Thomases has happily shared meals with Mike Gold and hopes to do it again in the future.
John Tebbel
September 25, 2010 - 6:00 am
And nutrition science, neglected for millenia, has only been around since Harvey Kellogg. Our nutritional model is a Model T and it only comes in black. What’s going on trying to feed a trillion cells is as complicated as the weather and it will take a while before we’ve got a street full of reliable choices in whatever colors and trim package we desire.
And, FLASH, when you put “Harvey” into google, the first suggestion is Pekar. Have a nicer day.
Howard Cruse
September 25, 2010 - 7:15 am
It’s useful to cultivate the skill of smiling while uninvited advice that seems not to merit consideration drifts harmlessly in one ear and out the other. Sometimes, of course, uninvited advice DOES merit consideration, so it’s good to entertain that possibility while the counsel’s ear-to-ear transit is underway.
As with religious enthusiasms, the most effective way to influence that mindsets of friends is by example rather than proselytizing. I’m not (yet) a vegetarian but being in the company of some happy vegetarians has probably edged me at least marginally toward a healthier diet.
Frank Miller
September 25, 2010 - 7:26 am
And don’t forget the purpose of all Harvey Kellogg’s nutrition. Moved by the plight of orphans he wanted to insure they got proper nutrition so they wouldn’t masturbate.
Mike Gold
September 25, 2010 - 7:47 am
“These seem to be people who bully Mike about his food choices. While I have no doubt that such people exist, that hasn’t been my experience with vegetarians.”
You mean you’ve never heard of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, the Center for Science in the Public Interest, or People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals? Really? Or do you simply ignore them?
“Why is it wrong for someone else to want you to be healthy? Do you prefer that they want you to be sick?”
You’re right, Martha. So, as your friend, I admonish you for living in Greenwich Village. It’s dangerous. Crime is high. The air is horrible, and the air circulation in those overpriced animal cracker condos is worse. The whole place smells like piss — that can’t be healthy. You live a heartbeat from the subway (which isn’t even running today, I note). In addition to being crime-ridden and horrible smelling, it’s a magnet for loonies who push people in front of trains. Your city has been run by an endless series of fools, historically much moreso than any northern city. Your NYC sales tax is 8.365%, and if you move to Manhattan and you can’t afford a condo, you will pay over two thousand bucks a month (plus a couple G’s to an agent) for a one bedroom apartment IF they’re lucky. Damn near everything else is ridiculously overpriced. A great many salad bars in the city have been found to be poisonous, and if Wal*Mart were to sell dangerous illegal drugs in every store they couldn’t possibly do it as efficiently as the criminals do in New York. The noise level in Manhattan is extremely unhealthy, and if you need an ambulance to take you to the hospital, traffic is so impossible and the streets are so narrow even without the epidemic double-parkers (many with “MD” license plates!) if you don’t die before the ambulance arrives chances are real good you’ll die before you make it to the hospital. New York is a magnet for both international and domestic terrorism, and the human slavery business is astonishing.
You talk about costs. Yeah, I’ve heard about this. Food fascists are tired of paying for my choices. Do you know how much New York City costs the REST of the United States? To name but a few.
You might say you know about all this, you understand the risks, and it is your choice to live there. I agree 100%. I agree to the point where I have no qualms about going to New York City with alarming frequency, but hell, I eat meat so what do I know.
You might think (note to the masses: Martha is usually way too polite to say this out loud) that you don’t appreciate people haranguing you about all these dramatic liabilities. I understand this. But as a close friend once told me (like, five minutes ago), “why is it wrong for someone else to want you to be healthy? Do you prefer that they want you to be sick?”
And just because I eat meat, that doesn’t mean I don’t eat fruit. Despite the fact that I’m allergic to fermented foods. My mother doesn’t eat fruit. Or much of anything.
But you have your opinion and I have mine. We’re entitled. And the NEXT time you and your husband want to go to the famous and fabulous Ben Benson’s steak house on 52nd Street in Manhattan, as we did not too long ago, hey, I’m there. Unless you’d rather go to Peter Lugar’s in Brooklyn; I was near there last Friday and was saddened they weren’t open at 3:15 AM, when I left the nearby rockabilly club.
Oh, and John, when I Google “Harvey” I get Frank Fay. That’s pretty cool. The John Harvey Kellogg you’re referring to did not start Kellogg’s cereal; that was his brother. His brother did NOT follow John Harvey’s “healthy” formula, and John Harvey Kellogg most certainly did not invent Sugar Smacks. But he did think sex was unhealthy.
My favorite health nut — and one of the most Google-worthy personalities in history — is Bernarr Macfadden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernarr_Macfadden), publisher of Physical Culture magazine, Liberty, True Detective, True Story, True Romances, Sport, Dream World, Ghost Stories, Photoplay, and the most interesting daily newspaper ever published in the US, The New York Graphic.
Martha Thomases
September 25, 2010 - 8:04 am
@Mike: A few things
• I didn’t say it is unhealthy to eat meat. Quite the opposite.
• New York City sends much more money to the Federal government (and the state government) in taxes than we receive. If anything, we subsidize those welfare queens in Alaska.
• My current steak house (because I’m writing a book with the Maitre d’) is Del Frisco’s (http://www.delfriscos.com/). We should go.
Mike Gold
September 25, 2010 - 8:15 am
Martha:
• I didn’t say YOU said it was unhealthy to eat meat. You talked about “armies of self-righteous vegans out there, trying to pressure you into giving up meat” and I responded by noting the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, the Center for Science in the Public Interest, or People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. I don’t believe you qualify in any of these categories.
• Depends how you calculate money. A lot of NYC’s expenses aren’t covered by the return of federal tax dollars. The U.N. (particularly this past week), security at federal and international facilities, the overwhelming number of federal agents of all stripes, a great many expenses incurred by the ports including JFK and LaGuardia, the many military facilities, offices, and agencies across the city… all that brings a hell of a lot of revenue into NYC. I doubt the city could live without it. Hell, the city can barely life with it.
• Did I mention bedbugs? I didn’t mention bedbugs. According to Terminix (who, I guess, should know) New York is the most bedbug infested city in the United States, surpassing (in order) Philadelphia (Hi, Rick!), Detroit, Cincinnati and Chicago.
• Never been to Del Frisco’s, but you’ll forgive me if I find John’s opinion of their steaks better informed. But, hell, either way, I’m there. Let’s do it.
John Tebbel
September 25, 2010 - 8:46 am
And Mike, I was dating the dawn of Nutrition Science to the days of the Kelloggs, not attempting to credit the wrong brother with the cereal business (though either K would have turned up their nose at the crap they sell and the lies they tell today).
They were about as right as often as Henry Ford, but they got the conversation going.
PETA is not about science or nutrition. Perhaps their policies would have an end effect on nutrition, but they are a marginalized group when it comes to policy.
The other two are just calling the facts like they see it. When new facts show up, they, or someone like them will bring that out. And an organization that clings to non-facts will perish. They are the David v. the Goliath in this case, and unlike the famous story, it’s the Goliaths who prevail in terms of food policy. In terms of individual diet, if you’re a middle class American you can buy it and eat it and serve it to your friends and family, more so than any person in the history of the world.
You believe any one of these guys and you get in trouble. Ford’s brilliant business ideas were studded with shite and superstition.
Are there people who will crank up the guilt about things that are in the dopamine receptor corral? Yes, about food, drink, fast women, fast cars, late nights and loud music. I could go on. Fook them all I say. I remember teetotaling being the scientific line and now if you’re not drinking red wine once a day you’re suicidal. Latest centenarian in the paper is on his 300,000th cigarette and downs a glass of whiskey every day. What makes a person healthy is as different from what makes him happy (New York) and the only people helped by most of these proscriptive guys from Kellogg to MacFadden to today’s suspects are the perps themselves. We buy their fat free snake oil to treat them to a juicy steak. Same with the whoring moralists in velvet robes and marble palaces.
Remember, you have to fork them all. If you start playing favorites you end up with a gun and a badge and “I don’t have to drive because I’m the Sergeant.” I’ve been there before.
Martha Thomases
September 25, 2010 - 1:44 pm
@Mike: The UN is a separate legal entity, and not, strictly speaking, part of New York. Although we do pay more than our fair share of their upkeep. That’s okay by me – a vibrant international community means better food choices for me. We should go to Chinatown in Queens sometimes. Just the thought of ordering hand-pulled noodles with you makes me giggle.
As for annoying advocacy ads, they are part of the modern technological landscape. You don’t like the ad from the Physicians Committee, and I don’t like the ads for clean coal. They’re just ads. I ignore them. If they are about a subject that interests me, I’ll do my own research. None of them disturb me nearly as much as the distortions blaring from my media from the Linda McMahon campaign.
I refuse to defend bedbugs.
Mike Gold
September 25, 2010 - 2:27 pm
Whereas the UN is a separate nation, much like a consulate or an embassy, the US taxpayer spends a fortune on security concerns. So much so it would give the Tea Baggers a heart attack.
Never been to Queens’ Chinatown. Sounds swell. Do they have Sichuan prime rib? Yummm! “Hand-pulled noodles” is just way too easy. I have my pride.
I’m not opposed to advocacy ads; free speech pretty much covers it. I’m not opposed to bitching about ’em, either. I have my pride. Ain’t crazy about this clean coal bullshit, and I’m even less crazy about Linda McMahon (although one of the few decent barbecue joints is across the street from WWE headquarters). Linda’s a fucking lunatic.
The whole bedbug thing is simply… weird. Some of the most elite places in midtown were shut down. That part warms this class warrior’s heart.
Eddie
September 25, 2010 - 8:24 pm
Martha, do they really show TV ads in New York now urging vegetarianism? Lordy, New York has gotten rarefied.
Oh and Mike, thanks for filling me in that it’s Bernarr Macfadden that generations of closeted gay men have to thank for jerk-off material in the dark days when that was the best you could get.
Mike Gold
September 25, 2010 - 9:18 pm
Oh, Bernarr did a great job with his physical culture magazines and books. Pretty high-grade, certainly for his time.
Martha Thomases
September 26, 2010 - 6:36 am
If you ever want to have legions of busy-bodies lecture you about what you eat, try being a pregnant woman. Especially if you’re in a bar.
@Eddie: I’ve never seen this commercial. That doesn’t mean it’s not being shown, but perhaps Mike watches different television than I do. I have, however, seen ads for the KFC Double Down so often I can recite them.
R. Maheras
September 26, 2010 - 10:01 am
I just ate a banana a few minutes ago, so my mom should be happy.
Here’s the thing. I think the saying “all things in moderation” is a good one. I think one should be able to eat crap (metaphorically speaking, of course) when they want to, as long as they do so in moderation. And like I’ve mentioned before, exercise should also be in the mix.
Healthwise, I rarely go to the doctor (knock on wood), and in the very, very rare instances I’ve had a prescription for something, it’s always been for the short term (a week or so at most).
So despite my non-vegetarian lifestyle, I’m not much of an imposition on my fellow health insurance holders. On the other hand, I’ve known vegetarians or other health-obsessed folks who have been on prescription drugs for years or decades, and are at the doctor’s office so frequently they actually remember their doctor’s name without looking it up.
Hell, I go to the doctor so infrequently, more than once when I called a clinic to set up my appointment, my old doctor was long gone.
Martha Thomases
September 26, 2010 - 11:45 am
@R: Even “All things in moderation,” while sensible, is not a solution for everybody. My father, for example, gets heartburn every time he eats a raw pepper. As a result, even though he loves raw peppers, especially red ones, he doesn’t eat them. Many people are lactose intolerant. They can’t eat dairy, even in moderation.
Neither my father nor those poor, ice-creamless souls, would bother you about your salad if included peppers and cheese. However, if you later became sick from something you ate, they might suggest you see if, perhaps, the peppers or the cheese were the problem.
I realize that by sharing such information with each other, we may risk putting Tums and/or Prylosc and/or the zillions of other heartburn/stomach upset medicines (OTC and prescription) out of business. There’s a lot of money to be made from people whose diets make them sick. However, I hardly think it is offensive when people share their experiences about what works for them.
As I appreciate yours.
Mike Gold
September 26, 2010 - 2:53 pm
Martha, I’ve tried being a pregnant woman and you’re right, I got a lot of advice. Mostly people saying “stop trying to be a pregnant woman.”
Although a couple guys hit on me.
Reg
September 26, 2010 - 4:27 pm
Great and timely article Martha. And, as expected, the resulting arguments have made for interesting reading.
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I’ve been a vegetarian for about 20 years. I made the decision after reading Dick Gregory’s Cooking with Mother Nature. The rationales contained within the book in conjunction with other research made it pretty clear to me that the meat intensive diet in the US (chock full of chemicals) and mostly sedentary culture combine to make a recipe that I didn’t want to follow.
It’s easy to see the results of this toxic brew every time we walk into a supermarket or a restaurant. And it’s easy to see the results in terms of the burden on national health costs…Russ’ anecdote notwithstanding.
Nevertheless, as I stated in the same thread, I also don’t beat folks over the head with the science either. Heck, as I come from a tradition of GREAT southern cooks, I’ve made plenty of meals for family and friends that allow them to revel in their ignorantly barbaric tendencies. 😀
But I also have two nephews and a niece that upon asking (over the years) the why’s and wherefore’s for my choice and seeing the benefit themselves have also chosen to be vegetarians. So I definitely agree that gentle and respectful ‘sharing’ of one’s beliefs and experiences lends to more effective dialogue and success in getting one’s views accepted…or at the very least…respected.
Oh yeah…in regards to whether human beings are by nature carni, omni, or herbivores…imagine my pleasure at discovering the passage of Scripture (predating the Law by quite a few years) that gives pretty clear expression from the Designer that says… “Behold…I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.”
Sounds like a good plan to me.
Reg
September 26, 2010 - 4:40 pm
Offered for consideration…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/25/worlds-highest-obesity-ra_n_738110.html#s144649
“We’re number TWO!! We’re number TWO!!”
🙁
MOTU
September 26, 2010 - 10:36 pm
I stopped eating meat for a year. That very same year I started drinking.
Martha Thomases
September 27, 2010 - 4:43 am
I gave up eating meat in high school, and it wasn’t good for me. I still eat chicken and fish and sometimes I’ll have something red. I have to really want it. This is what works for me so far.
Drinking only works if I can go to sleep soon thereafter.
Mike Gold
September 27, 2010 - 9:16 am
Reg, the only real problem I have with vegetarianism is Dick Gregory.
He was (and still can be, as his few fairly recent brief teevee appearances have revealed) perhaps the most insightful, clever and funny stand-up philosopher around, and I mean that in a world that included Richard Pryor and George Carlin. Then as now, he was very very political and I had the honor of sitting in his apartment in the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago (with many others) discussing strategies. That would be, ahhhh, 41 years ago. I was 19.
Then one day he discovered “health” and he pretty much quit the stand-up philosopher racket. This was one of the greatest voluntary losses of the 20th Century. Yes, I’m still pissed about it. Fuck the lentil beans; make me giggle at how shitty the world is.
As for his diet recommendations, no, I cannot drink distilled water at body temperature. I cannot drink anything at body temperature. I don’t even want to go outside when the temperature is body temperature.
A quick search of Amazon reveals only one of his albums — In Living Black & White — remains available, although many of his books are accessible, including his brilliant autobiography. Good luck asking for it at your local school library, though. It’s called “Nigger.”
Somehow, renaming it “N-Word” just misses the point.
Reg
September 27, 2010 - 12:36 pm
Mike…c’mon bro, don’t hate the Dick! Urrm…wait..that didn’t come out right…Dang! What I meant wuz…ahhh heck…go ask Q, he’ll explain it better.
On the real, I’m starting to brew up some serious haterade for you regarding all of these anecdotes. Rapping with Dick in his home? Too cool, man.
In respect to what we may have lost once he found health, I’d say the world has gained infinitely more. And I believe that he’d be the first to say that doing so definitely saved his life and countless others. Also, the fact that he can still slice and dice you to the bone with razor truth and wit proves that he remains one of the best minds with the sharpest eyes around.
Mike Gold
September 27, 2010 - 2:41 pm
Reg, he ABSOLUTELY would agree with you.
And he most certainly can slice and dice you to the bone. I’d pay big money to watch him debate Paul Mooney. Two totally ruthless people each with a sense of humor that can cut the finest deli-thin roast beef from across the street.
I just looked both up ‘cuz I wanted to see their difference in age and I learned something really, well, cute. First, the age difference: they’re a mere eight years apart. Which one looks like he’s maybe 20 years younger? Hint: not the guy who wrote the health books.
Here’s the cool shit. Paul Mooney, Barack Obama and I all share the same birthday. Weird. I wonder if Mooney’s left-handed?
Oh, and four years ago Mooney followed Dick Gregory on stage at the Lincoln Theater.
Reg
September 27, 2010 - 3:33 pm
Mike,
Hail to the Chiefs!
Funny call on the ‘which one looks older’…but you’ve gotta admit that lengthy fasting (70 plus days!), multiple activist marathon runs(while fasting), and Nazarite beard vow, might wreak just a little havoc on one’s beauty regimen.
Re: good reads…Dick’s ‘Callus on My Soul’ is a great one.
Yeah, I ain’t ashamed to admit it, I love me some ….
Well, you know.