MICHAEL DAVIS WORLD

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Giving Up the Gun, by Martha Thomases – Brilliant Disguise

January 29, 2011 Martha Thomases 0 Comments

There has been a lot of discussion lately about the original intent of the Founding Fathers when they wrote our constitution.  Among others, the most conservative justices on the Supreme Court, including Scalia and Thomas, think this intent, more than evolving legal opinion over more than two centuries, is the important part.

Usually, these conversations arise when we’re talking about a right to privacy, which is invoked to argue for gay marriage, abortion rights, and other progressive issues.  In the past, some have invoked original intent to oppose civil rights for African-Americans and women’s suffrage.

This week, however, I’d like to discuss original intent as it concerns the Second Amendment.  According to Wikipedia , this is the text (although there is some dispute about the placement of the commas):

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

The Founding Fathers had guns.  Most people did at that time, since most people lived in rural areas. They used them to hunt and to keep predators away from their flocks.  However, when it came time to amend the Constitution, the founders didn’t invoke self-defense or protection as a reason to bear arms.  Instead, they set the discussion in terms of a “well regulated Militia.”

Over the years, the courts have interpreted this differently, but it seems to me that the original intent was to secure a “free State,” or to keep the government in check.  The founders had just fought a Revolutionary War.  They next amended the constitution to prevent the government from being able to quarter soldiers in a person’s private home.

It would seem that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to assure the populace of the means to rebel against the State.  The Founders wanted citizens to be protected from excessive government, whether it be J. Edgar Hoover’s COINTELPRO program or the attacks feared by militia groups in Idaho.

As a pacifist, I don’t like guns.  Hence, I don’t have any.  However, as a realist, I recognize that it is impossible for me to have enough guns to defend myself from a government that has a modern military at its disposal.  For one thing, I only have two hands, and therefore cannot fire more than two guns at a time.  For another, the government has a lot more than guns.  They have tanks, jets, nuclear bombs, and the ability to close the Post Office (so I can’t get paid).

The Founders couldn’t anticipate these technological developments.

In fact, it isn’t always necessary to resist a authoritarian government with bullets.  As a noted non-violent activist once said, “They’ve got the guns, but we’ve got the numbers.”  Just this past week, tens of thousands of demonstrators have demanded a change in their governments, bringing down a despot in Tunisia and threatening others in Egypt and Yemen.

If we’re going to consider original intent, I have to believe that Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin and the gang would recognize these demonstrations as closer to their intent before they claimed this guy.

Media Goddess Martha Thomases thanks everyone for their support, and is getting on with it.

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Comments

  1. Swayze
    January 29, 2011 - 3:16 pm

    Well said. I particularly like the accompanying photo of genitalia.

  2. Howard Cruse
    January 29, 2011 - 3:29 pm

    As a kid growing up in rural Alabama I lived in fear of my peers who found it amusing to keep me in a state of anxiety by aiming their BB guns in my direction with sardonic grins on their faces and cocking the triggers. Sometimes the little pellets would fly and skin would be pierced—though I at least escaped that fate.

    I would have been even more depressed if I had known that these guys had the Founding Fathers on their side.

  3. Mike Gold
    January 29, 2011 - 3:55 pm

    That’s not a small penis. And it really gets hot when it shoots.

    The second Amendment, how it’s written, if it’s relevant today, what it means in terms of today’s modern features… that’s all irrelevant. That’s because we have a right to defend ourselves. Furthermore, no matter how much you believe in Tinkerbell, absolutely none of the ordinance that’s lying around will disappear with her upon her death. If it would, I’d take the little bitch out on my own.

    I’m certainly not opposed to reasonable restrictions — licensing, restrictions as to machine guns, tactical nuclear weapons, satellite death stars, that sort of thing — and only an idiot would think we shouldn’t do what we can to keep this stuff out of the hands of lunatics and later-day America Firsters (although one should note that folks like Sargent Shriver and Potter Stewart were America Firsters). But if you live in the real world, you have a basic right to self-defense.

    As for the government coming at me with tanks and bazookas and such… hey, have you been to Egypt lately?

  4. pennie
    January 29, 2011 - 4:12 pm

    We know that prohibition doesn’t work as well as certain agencies would prefer. Nor has it in the past. Still, that doesn’t mean regulation by degree is a bad thing. Don’t think anyone would argue there is a substantial difference between a handgun and an Uzi.
    Then there’s the case of the Massachusetts father who took his 8-year-old son to the gun range to shoot off said Uzi..shockingly, it was no contest–the Uzi won.
    The only degree needed here was the third.

  5. pennie
    January 29, 2011 - 4:13 pm

    Mike, Didn’t some wiseacre remark, “Happiness is a warm gun…”

  6. MOTU
    January 29, 2011 - 4:28 pm

    I’m so Liberal I call myself a bleeding heart. That said, I own a LOT of guns. Mostly because people in my family have been murdered for no other reason except they were in the right place at the wrong time.

    I’m NOT going out like that. You come into my home with the intent of doing me or my family harm, I’m shooting you without prejudice.

    THEN-I’m reloading.

  7. Jonathan (the other one)
    January 29, 2011 - 4:39 pm

    My house is too small to make a firearm useful for defense. That’s why I have the one wall with all the knives, daggers, and dirks on it. They’re not just decorative…

    However, I have lived before in areas where guns were needed for self-defense as well as hunting. (When the fastest police response possible exceeds 30 minutes, you need to rely on yourself and your family.) We had several hunting rifles (which would have worked just as well on humans as on elk, I’m sure), a couple of shotguns, a .22-cal revolver (mostly for plinking), and an heirloom .38-cal five-shooter passed down from my great-grandfather (my eldest brother has it currently, and when he dies, it goes to his oldest son, and so forth). What’s needed isn’t more regulation – we have plenty of regulations, some of which are sadly not enforced as they should be – it’s better definition of what some of the regulations mean. For instance, the most recent “assault weapon” ban was so poorly worded, the varmint rifle I owned at the age of 14 would have been outlawed (it was semiautomatic, and its magazine was capable of holding 12 .22-cal rounds, which for the purposes of the ban made it exactly the same as an AK-47). This sort of silliness is what makes the laws easier to ignore – kind of like putting a 35-mph speed limit on a six-lane road, then expecting people to actually do 35 on it.

  8. Mike Gold
    January 29, 2011 - 4:57 pm

    There’s a gun culture that exists that urban elitists such as myself don’t quite understand. That’s fine. I grew up in the big city, my perception of guns is limited to self-defense. I don’t hunt, although I would if I had to and I certainly pay others to do my hunting for me.

    I don’t collect guns but I know people who do. These folks are as normal as I am, if you happen to find that comforting. I collect and have collected more than my share of weird shit, and I since guns have a historical lineage, I can intellectually appreciate the passion.

    Massachusetts is the state with the toughest gun laws in the nation. If you’ve got a gun in your car, you’ve got to drive around the state. Yes, some idiot took his 8 year old out for a Uzi-off. That’s not the Uzi’s fault. There are parents who stick their kids in microwave ovens, and we don’t talk about banning them. I’m not interested in idiot-proofing America; reducing our nation so it is acceptable and safe for the lowest common denominator is no way to live.

    And, for the record, idiots who mistakenly shoot their dicks off fit squarely into my definition of “justice served.”

    Pennie, happiness is indeed a warm gun. In this case, it doesn’t even have to shoot straight.

  9. Martha Thomases
    January 29, 2011 - 8:54 pm

    Actually, although I’m not a gun-fan, the point of this column was not anti-gun. If I had expressed myself more clearly, you would have understood that, instead, I was complaining about what I perceive to be the hypocrisy of the so-called strict constructionist, who claim that the original intent of the Founding Fathers should determine our laws.

    Instead, I prefer the tradition of considering established precedent as the law evolves. Precedents can be overturned (so that slaves are freed and women can vote), but there’s no need to pretend that the Revolutionary era was some kind of Eden.

  10. pennie
    January 30, 2011 - 6:24 am

    Martha, your point is well taken. As a species, we have evolved. American society has as well. Don’t see too many people wearing animal skins carrying long rifles, riding horses into town to shop and socialize as a way of life.

    The strict constructionists who want to adhere to the literal laws of the the late 1700’s seem to prefer the social customs of that time as well. People owned slaves, women were 3’d class citizens, homosexuality was socially unacceptable and there were few laws regulating guns. Not the kind of culture in which many of us would thrive.

    The bottom line here: life is about change. It is inevitable. The changes we hope for may not happen in our desired time-frame. But, as sure as the colonies separated from England, change happens.

  11. Mike Gold
    January 30, 2011 - 8:58 am

    Pennie: “As a species, we have evolved.”

    Paul Simon: “After changes upon changes, we are more or less the same.”

    Mel Gibson aside, Mad Max was a warning.

  12. McCarthy
    January 30, 2011 - 1:37 pm

    For a short time in his career as a NYC firefighter, my father worked as a fire marshal, which meant he’d carry a gun, and there’d be one in the apartment.

    Even though I was pretty young (10? 12?) he brought me into a room and showed me the gun, so I wouldn’t be curious about it, and seek it out later. “Here it is, get it out of your system.”

    I still remember how heavy it was, how impossible it was (for me) to pull the trigger without the hammer penised, and how ridiculously easy it was to pull the trigger when it WAS penised.

    Then, the gun went back into its lock box, and I never saw it again. I guess I got it out of my system.

  13. pennie
    January 30, 2011 - 3:52 pm

    Mike, Yeah, the Paul Simon quote reminds me of the original Twilight Zone with a suburban neighborhood descending into medieval chaos once power went out selectively. I know you saw this.
    I want to believe we have evolved legally and larger, as a society. Have we? I think most everyone here could conjure illustrations to fit both sides now.
    Has humanity become more compassionate; more tolerant; less sadistic; more accepting?
    Some say, “no.” People are basically selfish, intolerant, self-centered, out-for-themselves, And left to their own devices, will take as much as they can. So we need guns to protect ourselves.

    MOTU, I too lost people. Once, had a gun placed in my my mouth and was sure I was gone. Had knives pressed into my throat-twice. I left NYC after that last one in 1978. I understand why you’ve often stated your reasons why you are so passionate about this subject. It makes perfect sense.

    To Mike’s point again: Have we evolved?
    Maybe, I’m wrong. Maybe, not so much.

  14. Mike Gold
    January 30, 2011 - 4:52 pm

    Simon’s line works both ways. We’re neither substantially better nor substantially worse. We’re smarter and we have better toys: we can live a long time and fly around and watch porn from an iPad (why don’t they show THAT in their TV spots?), but there’s a difference between being smarter and being better. Al Capone was a genius. We’re not inherently evil but we all do what we know is wrong from time to time, and not always with regret.

    Yep, I sure saw that Twilight Zone. And I think that, given sufficent desperation, our reptile brains take us back. It’s our survival instinct.

    BTW, last week I watched the movie version of Rod Serling’s Patterns again. A brilliant movie that cuts to the quick. It should be broadcast immediately after each and every showing of Mad Men.

    As for violence, yes I’ve been there as well. It’s not a race, and the main difference between my experiences and Michael’s is that on a couple of occasions I put myself into those situations voluntarily. When I was 18 I went down to Cairo Illinois as a civil rights worker. At that time this was a hot war: white folks were shooting at black folks, often from the safety of police headquarters. They simply loved us Northern nigger-lovers, too. I was shot at and I learned how to use a gun. I’ve been in a half-dozen violent confrontations since then, mostly here in New York where all the progressive people live. Which is why I have this “right to self-defense” posture.

  15. pennie
    January 30, 2011 - 5:34 pm

    Porn on I-pads? Hot Flash City!
    I could really go somewhere with THAT!
    Guess I could go anywhere…

    Seriously, I would like to think that we have grown smarter AND better despite knowing I could point to contrary evidence.

    We’ve seen outbreaks of looting recently (and in the past), but doesn’t that have more to do with class deprivation and institutionalized racism than fundamental human behavior. So isn’t the best solution to uplift society AMAP to prevent people from caving to a lowest common denominator?
    Just an old hippie chick warbling…

  16. Mike Gold
    January 30, 2011 - 6:04 pm

    Mob action, which is a phenomenon and not a planned event, wakes up the Lizard Brain. Always. There’s always a few people (more as the riot goes on) that do all sorts of shit that they wouldn’t do otherwise, and not for monetary gain. Steal a teevee set during the New Orleans flood? Why do you think the alarm wasn’t working? In Egypt yesterday, according to “published reports” (which means it might not actually be so) looters finally broke in to the Museum and ripped off the heads of two mummies. Ever try to hock a mummy head? Even the Pawn Stars won’t buy it.

    It’s the Lizard Brain rising up angry, feeding on the first thing it sees.

    By the way, I don’t recommend watching porn on the iPad while on an airplane or a commuter train. Your response is limited, and the prude sitting next to you will squirm. However, I do watch movies Martha recommends while in locomotion, and she rarely recommends porn. Thus far.

  17. Martha Thomases
    January 30, 2011 - 6:49 pm

    Sorry, folks, but this is my idea of porn: a 7-bedroom, 5-bath house for 200K.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1848-Fifth-Avenue_Youngstown_OH_44504_M45872-54598

  18. Mike Gold
    January 30, 2011 - 6:54 pm

    Yup. And the corn is wonderful in Iowa during the fall.

    Youngstown has too much franchise food for your taste, I think.

  19. Martha Thomases
    January 30, 2011 - 6:57 pm

    Honey, I know the Raffel Brothers for whom Arby’s is named.

  20. Mike Gold
    January 30, 2011 - 7:05 pm

    Really? Damn! That explains why there’s so many in northern Ohio and Pennsylvania. You drive down I-80 as much as I do and you’ll wind up eating there. Unless Adriane is in the car.

    I thought it was R – B for “roast beef”, which they actually used to sell there. Fell in love with Arby’s in 1963; we divorced about 15 years later when they switched over to Pressed Rat.

    Popeye’s, on the other hand…

  21. MOTU
    January 31, 2011 - 2:14 am

    Mike,

    You mentioned hunting in one of your earlier post. There is nothing in this world I can think of that could make me hunt. I think it’s barbaric but that’s just my opinion. I have NO issue with people that hunt but count me WAY out.

    When I was a kid my grandfather shot two dogs in front of me because they killed a chicken or some such shit. This was on a farm in Alabama where I spent some summers. My hood was so dangerous that my mom would send me to Alabama for the summer. That shit is SO funny to me now because I remember with laser clarity the Knights Of The KKK BILLBOARD in the town I was in.

    I was around 10 or younger but I was also a history freak and spent all my free time in the library so I knew who and what the KKK was, I was terrified and felt much safer in my own hood.

    But. (sorry Peter) I digress. When my grandfather shot those dogs I was in such a state my sister started crying . She didn’t see the shooting but she simply lost it because her little brother was so fucked up.

    Understand, we were mortal enemies at the time and my sadness was her joy but not this time. She called my mother begging for us to come home. Seeing those animals killed is still one of the most horrible things I’ve ever seen…and I’m seen some shit.

    Long story short-I could NEVER kill an animal. BUT-I know beyond a shadow of a doubt I would shoot a person in a sec if warranted.

    That somehow saddens me.

  22. Mike Gold
    January 31, 2011 - 7:24 am

    MOTU, I appreciate your experiences. But if you’re hungry enough, you’ll strangle a pig in the muck for dinner. Given your feelings, you might want to avoid any wagon train travel — didn’t work out so well for the Donner party.

  23. Marc Alan Fishman
    January 31, 2011 - 7:45 am

    I’d like to let everyone know I keep a battalion’s worth of nerf weaponry in my house at all times. I have the right to weird them, and I do. For any who cross my path… prepare for a foam-filled death.

    I think we have a right to own guns, in so much that making it illegal would be as dumb as making alcohol, tobacco or marijuana illlegal… for those who seek it, it’s there. No law will stop someone from getting their hands on them.

    That aside, Martha, I’m with you on the main point of the post– There’s no way a sensible person (snicker) would try to argue that our founding father’s vision of this country should STILL be strictly followed. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, etc. would poo their knickers if they saw an iPad, or a hydrogen bomb. And furthermore, I’d like to think if they were here, now, they’d scoff at the nut bags we voted into office… how corrupt the system they built has gotten, and that guys like Glenn Beck are moving part of the population with their hate filled asinine rhetoric.

  24. MOTU
    January 31, 2011 - 8:48 am

    Mike,

    Oh for some bacon, I’d kill a pig with my bare hands. I just assumed you knew that.

  25. MOTU
    January 31, 2011 - 8:52 am

    Marc,

    This is not a joke, when I was a teenager a friend of mine was shot because he pulled a Nerf gun out at a party as a joke.

    He lived but he never lived that down.

  26. Mike Gold
    January 31, 2011 - 9:38 am

    Marc,

    Here’s what you do. First, soak your nerf ordinance in ether…

  27. R. Maheras
    January 31, 2011 - 10:08 am

    I’ve always had mixed feelings about guns, which is why, to date, I’ve never owned one. That said, when I was in the Air Force, and knowing how to shoot was a part of the job, I qualified as an expert on the M-16, and later, nearly qualified as expert with the 9 mm pistol (to quote Maxwell Smart, “I missed it by THAT much.”

    To me, it really doesn’t matter what the Founding Fathers “meant” by the Second Amendment, all I know is that in this day and age, there are still rural and urban predators, and guns are effective deterrents.

    And as I get older, and can no longer physically fight or flee as effectively as I did when I was younger, a gun may be the only equalizer I have if I am living in a place where the risk of home invasion is high.

    Not only do I never want that option to go away, I think I should also be able to buy a Glock or an Uzi if I want to. After all, with slower reflexes, less strength and possible arthritis, it’s got to be pretty tough for the average senior citizen to effectively level and fire a heavy shotgun or some other “young man’s” weapon (which is another reason why I’ve always thought Chicago’s hyper-strict gun laws did nothing more than benefit the criminal).

  28. Mike Gold
    January 31, 2011 - 10:53 am

    Russ — Depends upon the neighborhood. If you live in places like Englewood or Lawndale, you’re screwed. Chicago has never succeeded in moving the drug trade out to where the money is. Under street gangs that are no longer centralized (and that’s the most dangerous part) drug buyers both major and minor come into those neighborhoods where competition has little to do with coupons and clever marketing campaigns. Competition is dealt with at gunpoint. Breaking up the Latin Kings sent the death count skyrocketing.

    But, and this is the kicker, the profit margin is overwhelming and your average street dealer and mob runner is in his mid-teens with all the maturity and experience that comes with testosterone rage. If all the guns were to disappear they’d figure out another way to compete.

    And Chicago’s hyper-strict gun laws were tossed by the Supreme Court. I’m interested in seeing how that affects the stats.

  29. R. Maheras
    January 31, 2011 - 12:41 pm

    Mike wrote: “And Chicago’s hyper-strict gun laws were tossed by the Supreme Court. I’m interested in seeing how that affects the stats.”

    Yeah, it only took about, what, 30 years to overturn the law?

    I’ll bet every one of my Marvel Value Stamps that Chicago is dragging its heels “revising” their existing law, which means Joe Sixpack still can’t legally own a handgun until the new rules are in effect. And forget concealed carry, or any other pro-gun concession. You can be sure that Chicago leadership will do everything in its power to create a bureaucratic process that will still make it very difficult for its law-abiding citizens to own a handgun.

    Because of that, the stats probably won’t be a valid indication one way or the other for at least a few years (if ever).

  30. John Tebbel
    January 31, 2011 - 12:52 pm

    I’ve read we’re more likely to die from a gun crime in American than in any other industrialized yadda yadda yadda this is going to keep going because the money is in the gun business, not the life business, not the raising your children safely business, not in the decent sleep at night business.

    They like it when we spend out time doing this.

  31. MOTU
    January 31, 2011 - 3:17 pm

    I just shot a pig.

    Pork the ONLY white meat.

  32. McCarthy
    January 31, 2011 - 4:48 pm

    Did you get it out of your system?

  33. John Tebbel
    January 31, 2011 - 5:09 pm

    Smells like . . . Barbeque.

  34. Mike Gold
    January 31, 2011 - 6:53 pm

    Russ: Not until after the election, and then probably not until a federal judge notices.

    John: I really don’t think it’s the money — and I ALWAYS think it’s the money. It’s our culture. The money factor plays in other countries as well, but they don’t seem to have the same sort of hang-up about the cultural connection. All of which is completely irrelevant. The guns are here, they’ve always been here, kids can still make zip guns for science fair, and how much do you want for a used copy of the Anarchist’s Cookbook?

    Damn, I miss Lyle Stuart.

  35. Mike Gold
    January 31, 2011 - 6:55 pm

    Wait a minute. Barbecue??? John, MOTU, Russ, and anybody else with taste who wants to taste swell barbecue, meet me at the C2E2R2D2 comics convention at Chicago’s McCormick Place in March and join Marc and me for the real thing.

  36. R. Maheras
    February 1, 2011 - 9:01 am

    I WISH I could be in Chicago in March. Hell, I wish I could be in Chicago right now — even with a monster storm en route that’s supposed to dump 20″ of snow there later today.

    Twenty inches of snow! The last couple of winters remind me of the winters in the late 1960s. I remember in 1967 in Chicago, we got hit with about 29 inches of snow in less than a week. Us kids had a blast! We were jumping off roofs into huge snow drifts, built massive snow forts, and school was cancelled for something like three days (an eternity back then, since most kids generally walked to school)

  37. Mike Gold
    February 1, 2011 - 11:01 am

    In the 1967 storm, there were two stuck in the middle of the intersection near my place — they were there for about 10 days. That was fun. But THIS winter here in Connecticut is a lot worse. Right now we’ve got freezing rain, which is the worst. I’d rather have 20″ of snow any day.

  38. MOTU
    February 2, 2011 - 5:37 pm

    Wow, Snow. I remember that. I was justing thinking about that as I lay here by the pool.

  39. Reg
    February 2, 2011 - 9:24 pm

    That’s cold, mOTu.

  40. MOTU
    February 3, 2011 - 12:25 am

    Reg,

    Did you say something? I missed that, must be the roar of the air conditioning.

  41. Whitney
    February 3, 2011 - 10:27 pm

    Amazing Martha –

    I can’t believe that you’re into Real Estata Porn, too! I went to Iowa City once on business and found it tough to leave my hotel room because of the open house virtual tours! Gingerbread for under 100K…

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